The Mirror Inside
May. 26th, 2009 04:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
evilkateI've been prompted to think a lot lately - how unusual - about perception and the endurance of a self's identity. How anyone who isn't cisgendered has a perspective so much sharper in many ways. My thinking was partly prompted by a blog post from a good friend and kicked into focus when I did a favour for another friend.
In the first case, the friend was noting how, as non-cisgendered people, we often see things behaviourly re male/female that most others miss. It's true. Some would call these stereotypes and there is often a knee-jerk reaction to that word - but these differences do exist. Gender embeds people into social frameworks in differing ways. Now, of course, not all stereotypes apply to all people. That is what makes them stereotypes - the fact that they are broad summaries of complex behaviour. Nor do I see gender as anything close to binary - rather it seems to be a continuum and we all sit upon it somewhere. Furthermore, one cannot confuses sex and gender as many do instinctively: even many who are trans do this at times. After all, for those who cannot reconcile themselves (myself included) without transition - isn't that process partly about bringing physicality and emotional details into sync? Then there are those who manage to reconcile without transition and that makes them no less trans. That whole topic of 'authentic' is a discussion for another day though. For now - let's focus.
So it is not a simple thing but it has a simple resolution. If people can simply respect each other and offer whatever pronoun is preferred, regardless of transitional status, well that's easy ... isn't it?
But apparently it is not. This is where we come to the second friend, the one I did a favour for. He was in a forum where a transwoman was bemoaning how many lesbians would refuse to accept her. My friend wanted to know what her point was. He didn't quite 'get it' but, he had the decency to ask someone and to realise his issue.
Reading through that thread, I grew steadily angrier. Not only because so many responses were callous; selfish and basically vicious, but because of the general reality that they 'did not get it' - and these were people who SHOULD have.
I find it incredibly ironic - and somewhat tragic - how any gay girl could say "Sorry, I can't be with you because you are not a 'real' woman" - and that was the basic argument. They will say the same to post-ops, including those who past extremely well. Now don't mistake me here. People are allowed their preferences and we all have them. If someone isn't attracted to someone else, then they aren't - and if that is because they are not into some physical or emotional detail, that also is their right.
However, what ever happened to compassion and being polite? Why would anyone need to rabidly assert some kind of viciousness, by actually naming their preference as "only real women."
So what makes a woman real even? Having a womb? - hey there are woman born without those, a medical condition. Having a cycle? - so are we really defining gender based of binary ideals of physical characteristics? Being 'born' female? - well that might cause conflicts if we drop the whole binary gender model. Hrmm?
There was once a large movement within feminism - much of it centred among the gay population - that worked toward deconstructing gender. Where did that movement go? Did I miss something? :) People who have fought to own their identity, to not be defined by the views of others - some seem to have little issue with defining "not a real woman/man" and then imposing that on someone who is trans. How can these people not see what they do?
Most of all, I find it incredulous - that women who have had to fight for their place; to assert themselves as gay and proud; to push constantly against the weight of bigotry and institutional discrimination ... how tragic that some of those people who then inflict the same kinds of ignorance on others?
So there you have it. I always knew and had commented and discussed it with friends before this - but seeing the attitudes in that room. It was all so jarring ... that we have not moved as far as some keep telling us we have. Ignorance still abounds. People are still embedded in selfish realities and the world is still a harsh place to many.
Kate Out
PS: Oh - and don't go into the "Harden Up" argument people. I think that itself is a bogus argument, used by many to disavow any personal need to care. What? - so the world can be a harsh reality ... I don't agree that we need to surrender our compassion; fold inwards and become overtly self-interested beings. The world becomes less harsh only when we bother to care for the plight of others. Compassion is not a weakness ... it is the best thing we have going for us :)
In the first case, the friend was noting how, as non-cisgendered people, we often see things behaviourly re male/female that most others miss. It's true. Some would call these stereotypes and there is often a knee-jerk reaction to that word - but these differences do exist. Gender embeds people into social frameworks in differing ways. Now, of course, not all stereotypes apply to all people. That is what makes them stereotypes - the fact that they are broad summaries of complex behaviour. Nor do I see gender as anything close to binary - rather it seems to be a continuum and we all sit upon it somewhere. Furthermore, one cannot confuses sex and gender as many do instinctively: even many who are trans do this at times. After all, for those who cannot reconcile themselves (myself included) without transition - isn't that process partly about bringing physicality and emotional details into sync? Then there are those who manage to reconcile without transition and that makes them no less trans. That whole topic of 'authentic' is a discussion for another day though. For now - let's focus.
So it is not a simple thing but it has a simple resolution. If people can simply respect each other and offer whatever pronoun is preferred, regardless of transitional status, well that's easy ... isn't it?
But apparently it is not. This is where we come to the second friend, the one I did a favour for. He was in a forum where a transwoman was bemoaning how many lesbians would refuse to accept her. My friend wanted to know what her point was. He didn't quite 'get it' but, he had the decency to ask someone and to realise his issue.
Reading through that thread, I grew steadily angrier. Not only because so many responses were callous; selfish and basically vicious, but because of the general reality that they 'did not get it' - and these were people who SHOULD have.
I find it incredibly ironic - and somewhat tragic - how any gay girl could say "Sorry, I can't be with you because you are not a 'real' woman" - and that was the basic argument. They will say the same to post-ops, including those who past extremely well. Now don't mistake me here. People are allowed their preferences and we all have them. If someone isn't attracted to someone else, then they aren't - and if that is because they are not into some physical or emotional detail, that also is their right.
However, what ever happened to compassion and being polite? Why would anyone need to rabidly assert some kind of viciousness, by actually naming their preference as "only real women."
So what makes a woman real even? Having a womb? - hey there are woman born without those, a medical condition. Having a cycle? - so are we really defining gender based of binary ideals of physical characteristics? Being 'born' female? - well that might cause conflicts if we drop the whole binary gender model. Hrmm?
There was once a large movement within feminism - much of it centred among the gay population - that worked toward deconstructing gender. Where did that movement go? Did I miss something? :) People who have fought to own their identity, to not be defined by the views of others - some seem to have little issue with defining "not a real woman/man" and then imposing that on someone who is trans. How can these people not see what they do?
Most of all, I find it incredulous - that women who have had to fight for their place; to assert themselves as gay and proud; to push constantly against the weight of bigotry and institutional discrimination ... how tragic that some of those people who then inflict the same kinds of ignorance on others?
So there you have it. I always knew and had commented and discussed it with friends before this - but seeing the attitudes in that room. It was all so jarring ... that we have not moved as far as some keep telling us we have. Ignorance still abounds. People are still embedded in selfish realities and the world is still a harsh place to many.
Kate Out
PS: Oh - and don't go into the "Harden Up" argument people. I think that itself is a bogus argument, used by many to disavow any personal need to care. What? - so the world can be a harsh reality ... I don't agree that we need to surrender our compassion; fold inwards and become overtly self-interested beings. The world becomes less harsh only when we bother to care for the plight of others. Compassion is not a weakness ... it is the best thing we have going for us :)
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Yup
Date: 2009-05-26 08:49 am (UTC)There is one complication: lust. My physical attraction is utterly wild and unruly, attaching itself to whatever or whoever it likes. And sometimes it doesn't like people for quite visceral, unspoken reasons. So someone's lust may only focus on 'real' men or women. You can't easily lecture your lust to be more accepting.
That said, I only consummate my lust with people I utterly, totally love to the exclusion of all others. Which is at least where the brain kicks in properly - and either I discount people who are sexually attractive but Not Nice or realise I really, really love people whose beauty is more in their head than their body.
Probably not that helpful, but it works for me: I forgive my evil, wayward lust, but I don't air her in public.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-27 04:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-03 03:04 pm (UTC)when they asked me if there was someone i could love, i said her name, and there was shock and surprise and splutters of "how?" and "but you're a lesbian" and i said simply "i like women. and [her name] is a woman." and that's the end of the story for me. i don't say it will be as easy to be with a pre-op transwoman as it would be to be with a cisgendered woman, but really, in all aspects but the physical one, she's more of a woman than i am.
no subject
Date: 2009-06-03 03:29 pm (UTC)So yeah - that was nice. But I agree that the whole pre-op thing is confusing. I understand it. I struggle with it myself, often wondering why I still try to seek that elusive someone. Because I don't - yet - have all the right bits and it might well be as confusing, physically, for myself as for them. Which leaves me in the invidious position of thinking, maybe, the best 'target market' for now is bi girls :P ... but then I;ve found most of them seem to want to settle with a guy in the long run and I'm not really the shoret-term interest kinda girl :P
But I do keep trying, some stupid stubbon part of me refuses to give up. Hehe. Besides, at this rate, by the time (or if) I find someone ... well, a few more years will prolly have passed and I'll be 'all present and accounted for.'
I ran the numbers once - re the size of the gene pool possibly available - and that too was depressing. But - still, without hope what have we? :D
On the whole 'once a guy, always a guy' thing - yeah right :D - I was never a guy, I just learned to pretend well :P
Technically I wasn't born female or male. But I don't like falling back on that as an excuse, because I know many who can't and isn't queer-culture all about solidarity?
Kate Out
no subject
Date: 2009-06-03 05:49 pm (UTC)Regarding what your roommates said, the woman I was speaking of is like that too. It's noticeable more when she's dressed in a feminine way, or when she lets her guard down, something in the way she holds herself and the way she moves, and her energy. Even though she doesn't pass, even when dressed up, she's a woman and she's feminine. The masculine seems like a mask that she puts on for the outside world, and when she's dressed in regular clothes she just passes as a regular guy, but still, even then, she's a woman inside.
For me, if it weren't for the trauma (which will make it hard for me even with a cisgendered woman), I think I could handle the pre-op thing. I don't know for sure, but in my head, a penis on a woman is just a completely different thing from a penis on a man. I think the hardest part is that I'd rather the penis be on me not on my partner, but to me that's all secondary to loving someone or not loving someone. It's a part, but to love someone, you have to be able to have a good relationship with them in all kinds of situations, most of which are outside the bedroom, and I think things in the bedroom can be worked out if the attraction is there, while if you haven't found someone you can enjoy yourself with for a considerable amount of time outside of the bedroom, then you've found a one-night-stand at best.
But this manner of thinking makes it harder for me to find partners, not easier. A lot of women seem younger than me, even if they aren't (most of the girls in our circle are in their twenties, like me), because they're freer, and haven't had the experiences I've had. I've learned a lot from all my relationships, I think. (Though I haven't had one in a really long time).
You'll find someone. *crosses fingers*
Queer-culture should be about solidarity. The exclusion of trans people in some circles bothers me and the nonesense that's going on between the gay males and the lesbians in my city bothers me even more (they started it, though it's complicated and more about money than about queer stuff). It's kind of ridiculous that us girls are crossing the border to go to the Serbian gay club rather than visit our own club, but that's what it's come to. (The Serbian gay club in the little town near the border is awesome and I'd totally go there even without what's been going on, but it's hardly walking distance.)
no subject
Date: 2009-06-03 07:27 pm (UTC)You will possibly note, sometimes, the wrong word in the right place or vis-a-versa :P
My brain is wired in a very odd way. I am what is called an Intuitive Savant. I have an IQ off the chart but most of it is settled in my undermind. Yeah. My subconscious is smarter than I am. A side-effect is I cannot drive and have some issues with left-right :) - which is why they don't let me drive. Hehe. I am also ambidextrous, but not always that coordinated - sometimes letters get flipped when one hand was quicker than the other, or out-of-sync. :)
It tends to happen more often when I am thinking. Basically the subconscious is writing one letter while I am writing another. While they are similar, often different words are interposed as a result.
In a way it is like dyslexia in reverse. Heh. So anyways, long disclaimer done - on to the reply itself. :)
I dress kind of androgynous lesbian myself. So, naturally, still have a malish face - I don't pass so well either. I just confuse people (which I quite enjoy actually) - heh. I do understand the mask though. Even a year and a half into hormones, with obvious chestage, if an alpha-male I don't know is near, I can still find myself reverting to old masks. It is extremely annoying after the fact. I see myself doing it and I scream inside, but it still happens. Most annoying. :P
Re the pre-op thing: if they've been on hormones long enough, it doesn't actually look much like a penis anymore - more of a large clit :P - I know I have pretty much nada left now and that's a good thing regarding the dysphoria. Hehe. Oh, did I forget to mention? - with my honesty I also tend to be rather direct.
The trauma for me is the whole 'fear of freaking out' thing. I had a very eager offer a few years back and ... well ... I freaked. It was too soon and she was far too young and far too perfect - so a part of me refused to believe it and a part just kept flashing back to the bad old day. I'm stronger these days and also, I think, ready. I just don't ... know how to do the whole 'initial days' thing anymore. Partly confidence but mostly just basic fear. Trust issues will do that. :)
Still, I won't be giving up. I just ... well I'm an anatomically-challenged lesbian, with a 'not-yet' completely female body, who is very intelligent, extroverted and far too forward and I'm around 40 now (though I do look a fair bit younger - yay me). Heh - so I do tend to lament the possibilities. I mean - all I need is an open-minded gay or bi gal, with a good sense of humour and so smarts, who hasn't been snatched up by the age of 30 odd (or hey, 20 odd if they don't mind ;) - j/k) - and I do the math and it keeps coming back very improbable. I think I must be sick or something? - because I do keep trying. I do keep stubbornly persisting. :P
I agree with the whole one-night stand point. THat's a big part of my problem. At my age I'm not especially looking for something brief. Most others, however, seem to look at that side of thinks first and, if more comes later then it does. I tend to have it backwards. I seek for someone I like and get along with really well - THEN look for the other stuff. Of course, by that time they've usually consigned me to the "Really Good Friend" basket and, as any warm-blooded being knows, that's instant death for any other possibility :D
So yeah - it makes it harder to find anyone. It's all upside-down and inside-out. Then add to all that -as if I didn't alreayd have enough residual impediment - I am rather artsy and eccentric; a real geek-gurl with all kinds of esoteric interests. A real winning combination - LMAO! :D
And yeah - the solidarity is largely disolving because too many think the war is won, because they have won 'enough' for themselves. Self-Interest reigns and the age of aquarius vanishes like mid-morning fog - you can still feel it lingering but regardless of how hard you look ... you can't see it :)
Cynical? Moi? - no ... just a little weathered :P - I like to think of it as wise :P
Though that it more likely my pretentious side shining out of my bottom :P
Kate Out
no subject
Date: 2009-06-03 07:53 pm (UTC)I'm ambidextrous too, but I forced myself to be so as a child (was originally right handed, now right is still stronger, but left is very good. I spent hours writing the alphabet with my left hand when I was eight, after a friend broke her arm and I realised how useful it would be to know how to write with both), and I have synaesthesia (music --> colour, emotion --> colour), which causes me to use strange metaphors. And most people who meet me in person, if they know even a little bit about autism tend to ask, after a little while, whether I'm autistic. (Not diagnosed, much of what I've read about autism fits, but eh, I've got enough diagnosises. Don't need more.)
I have a genius IQ, but I don't put a whole lot of weight in IQ tests. I know someone who's IQ is probably about 60 points less than mine, and she's far more successful than I am (probably not in society's eyes, but she's at least more productive than I am.
That's good to know about the hormones, I didn't know that. I don't think she's on them at all yet, she basically looks like a guy with long hair.
The initial stages of any relationship are hard. Hard to know how to reach out, hard to read other people's signals, hard to know whether you're pushing too much or too little.
I seem to end up "good old best friend too" quite a bit. Annoying.
There have to be more people like us though, because it really is the best way to go about it. You don't want someone you only like when you're in bed with them. It's a great way to hide the fact that there's nothing else keeping the relationship going. You want someone that you like eating dinner with and you like watching tv with and you like doing housework with, and you like going shopping together and you like talking to them. Sex is fun and all, but it's not a very firm foundation for a relationship. I hope you find her :)
The war is far from won over here in East-Central Europe, and we know it. We have one club, and now it's been overrun by straight people and advertising itself as the gay club that lots of straight people come to because it's so fun! And it really is in the gays' best interests (even just monetarily) to not chase away the lesbians (who don't like straight men coming to their club to oggle at them or worse.) The problem is much more involved than that, but my knowledge of what's going on is somewhat privileged.
So we cross the border, and go to a small club whose name isn't printed on the building, and ring the doorbell and pay our 100 dinars (a little more than a euro) and the bouncer lets us in and we go downstairs and dance to Serbian songs that only I like *g* for the privilege of being in a place, where everyone is queer and no one will bother us.
no subject
Date: 2009-06-04 03:42 am (UTC)Yes English is my only language - much to my regret. The docs think, because of my Intuitive Savant thing, that I don't have a lot of space for more semantics. The subconscious needs what it there. Likewise, I have a bad memory, especially for things that my subconscious is working on. It's as though only 'one of us' can remember something at the same time. I'm used to it.
I also don't put much weight in to the IQ stuff. I have know some supposedly very smart people do very dumb things (myself included) and, likewise, I have lot of 'average' friends who make smart decisions. I went to one Mensa meeting - an age ago - and fled screaming. Literally. :) - I had gone in and the first 3 or 4 people I met all introduced themselves in a manner like "Hi. Angie 175" or "Hello. Brad 168" and I was like "What planet are you people from?!" :P
Apparently I was the 2nd smartest person there - on paper - woo hoo. Oh gawd. I have no issue with people refusing to be ashamed of a trait like intellect (because it does isolate us in a way) but I despise those who go too far and use it to mark themselves as somehow better. They have bought the lie - that this gift makes them superior. Tragic.
Oh I agree - there have to be more like us, surely. I just wish I could find one somewhat age appropriate :P - which is more for their benefit than mine. My longest rel (11 years) was with someone almost 10 years younger and I look at the inner voice of whoever, not the rest. Alas, the other way around I can understand why someone that much younger would think 'old' and nix anything. So yeah - hence I seek age appropriate, because most of the world is silly with boundaries and stuff. I have always seen boundaries are more like guidelines myself :P - but then I am evil - heh.
And the club thing - oh yes. Same here. One girl club and there are more straight than lez girls many days and the DJ's will play Katy Perry (urgh!) - I kissed a girl - and all the straight girls will dance to it and think they are cool, while the rest are left to idle and fume. I don't attend there. Even the girls I live with refuse to. One of them was working there and quit due to the annoyance. It's a sucky club. :)
Oh - and if you know anyone similar to yourself - close to their mid-30's :P - don't hesitate to tell her how 'special' I am eh? :D
Kate Out
no subject
Date: 2009-06-04 08:01 pm (UTC)Language has always been something that I just sort of grokked. And for me, each language has a different sort of texture to it, a different feel. Some things belong in one language while others belong in other. Usually, they belong in the language they happened in, but breaking that makes it easier or harder to talk about something. Easier to talk about harder things, especially when a language is new, and the painful English words are replaced with words I found in a dictionary that mean what I want to say, but don't mean anything in particular to me.
I've never been to a mensa meeting, but I don't think I'd enjoy it. I'm Pthalo 147, but the IQ test stops measuring things accurately at around 140 or so, possibly a little lower. After that point, I could be smarter or dumber than someone with a higher IQ than mine, and the test means very little. I'm obviously very different from someone with 110 or 120, but I'm not all that different from friends who got the number 180 or whatever. It's just a completely useless number that tells how good I am at taking IQ tests. I've probably raised it by 10-15 points since then because part of the test is memorising long strings of numbers, and I can do that much better now than I could a few years ago even.
You mentioned somewhere else about party tricks. One of mine is squaring numbers. You tell me a number (I usually ask for two digits since those are easy and I can do them quickly and they're enough to impress people) and I square it for you. But after a while I start feeling like a side show freak.
I think it's fine to see certain boundaries as guidelines. Specially boundaries like those, the societal imposed ones. Boundaries a person sets are different. Those are firm rules to me. But society is different.
We don't have a girl club. We have one gay club and that's it, and it's run by a straight guy who wants more straight guests because there's more money in them.
Oh - and if you know anyone similar to yourself - close to their mid-30's :P - don't hesitate to tell her how 'special' I am eh? :D
hee. :) will do. Myself, I am too young for you, yes. I like older women, but 35 is kind of the upper limit I had in mind (more of a guideline than a rule), but you're in Australia, and I just met you yesterday, and things are looking up with M for me.
no subject
Date: 2009-06-05 10:08 am (UTC)So my request was sincere - if you fall across someone age-appropriate ... slip 'em a note ;)
And I'm happy to hear that things are looking up for you and M - good luck - really. As I said before, it's always nice to see others prosper after traumatic times. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-06-05 11:04 am (UTC)I'll keep it in mind though. Don't know to many people though. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-06-05 11:21 am (UTC)I knew you two would like each other. And I'm glad I was right!
no subject
Date: 2009-06-04 08:09 pm (UTC)otherwise, it's a song about the kind of girl (straight except when drunk) i probably wouldn't kiss anyway :P
no subject
Date: 2009-06-04 11:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-04 01:57 pm (UTC)